Podcasting Story and Lessons Learned by Jon Nastor

Podcasting Story and Lessons Learned by Jon Nastor

Jon is a proud dad, husband and online entrepreneur who loves creating, marketing and selling cool things online.

Jon is a long time podcaster and has over 200+ episodes of his show Hack The Entrepreneur, he’s a successful 4 hour work week business owner, a bestseller book Hack the Entrepreneur: How to Stop Procrastinating, Build a Business, and Do Work That Matters author, a traveller and just a great guy!

Jon spent his earlier years travelling coast-to-coast across Canada playing drums in several punk rock bands. Although not a punk in fashion, he has never let go of the D.I.Y. ethic that taught him: if you want something to change, you have to do it, get it done, or stop complaining about it.

What you will learn:

  • How to build and audience in a short time
  • Being bad is part of the process
  • Making your podcast a great one

You can listen to Jon on his podcast Hack The Entrepreneur, read his blog, or follow him on Twitter.

You can also listen to us:

Your feedback is really valuable to me. If you found this episode helpful to you please leave review at iTunes, or comment on this blog post.
If you have any questions just send me an email at listen@castsource.net
Thanks!

Transcript

Evaldas Miliauskas: Can you hear it? Just listen carefully. Do you hear far, far away someone shouting to you that this will be the episode that you should concentrate on? On today’s show, you’ll hear Jon Nastor from Hack The Entrepreneur and he’ll share some of his serious hacks: how he build his audience in a very short time, being bad is part of the process, making your podcast to be great. But before we dive in, I want to tell you several hacks from Jon’s new book which I did enjoy a lot. Here goes: you have to learn to love what you do versus trying to do what you love. The hardest part of doing big things is convincing yourself that you can. Accept that at the starting point is the worst your business will ever be. Having said that, let’s get to the show.

Jolly roger everyone. On the wire, it’s our first episode of CastSource, Stories Behind Podcasting that lets you do a sneak peek behind the stage of podcast. I wanted to have, as our guest, Jon Nastor. Jon is a longtime podcaster and he has over 200 episodes of his show Hack The Entrepreneur. He’s a successful four-hour workweek business owner, a bestselling book author, Hack the Entrepreneur: How to Stop Procrastinating, Build a Business, and Do Work That Matters. He’s also a traveler and just a great guy. Let’s give a warm welcome to our guest. Hey Jon.

Jon Nastor: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Evaldas: Yeah, thank you for coming. How are things for you today?

Jon: Oh, things are great – busy but great.

Evaldas: Yeah, you like to do stuff?

Jon: Yeah, lots of stuff going on so it’s just the nature of it, right?

Evaldas: Yeah. Can you give us a little bit of insight in your life just so our listeners could imagine how is your day, how you started, what keeps you up at night, or lets you wake up in the morning?

Jon: Yeah, for sure. I’ve had several podcasts in my life – I’m going back the last 3 years now. About a year and a half ago, I was just running my software business and I had some time and freedom over the summer to not do very much so I got kind of tired of sitting on the beach. So I decided to start another podcast called Hack the Entrepreneur and it was just supposed to be short-lived and just something fun to do for myself but then it kind of hit the market well. I built a pretty good, tight audience fairly quickly and then that show got picked up by Copyblogger Media, released their own podcast network called Rainmaker.fm. So about six months after launch, I got picked up by them and joined their network and then I actually started another show with Copyblogger where I co-host — called the Showrunner now. And so between a Showrunner podcasting course where we teach people, through Copyblogger, how to podcast, and then Hack the Entrepreneur. I do four episodes a week of podcasts right now, then find sponsors, all that stuff – the things around a podcast. So my days right now consist of a lot of talking into a microphone, a lot of writing – because I write for Entrepreneur.com, I write for Copyblogger now, I write for Foundr Magazine, and I just wrote a book. So it’s a lot of creation of content and ideas and putting them out, I guess, into the world. That’s kind of what my days entail now. I still like to travel with my family and get away from things if I can but my business in a laptop so it does come with me wherever I go. But I really — I enjoy what I do and I think I work a lot because it’s a lot of fun and it seemed to have a lot of opportunities coming to me because of the podcasts so I don’t like to say no to them so I go for them all.

Evaldas: That’s nice – very nice. So you could say that you sort of found your passion in podcasting, in general?

Jon: Yeah, and I was — I’m the kind of person who – three years ago, two years ago even – if you would have asked me if I would ever be a podcaster, I would have laughed so hard: hated the sound of my voice, couldn’t speak into a microphone without getting all awkward, had no idea how to interview somebody. And now it’s something I do all the time. Like I spend probably 30 hours on a microphone a week now just to cross so many different shows and it’s crazy. And I’m comfortable behind it doing it now and I’m cool with the sound of my voice and I know how to interview people but I didn’t like three years ago. It’s just something that I really wanted to and so I stepped up and I made a lot of mistakes – I still do – and I just kind of kept going and learned from it. And I’m really happy that I did because it really does — it is my passion now and it makes me really happy.

Evaldas: Yeah, that’s one thing. I actually started listening to my own voice and it was so strange. You probably get used to it sometimes but do you have any strategy for that?

Jon: That’s actually a scientific thing. You can Google it like “hating the sound of your own voice” and there’s actual scientific research that’s happened and every single person in the world hates the sound of their own voice. Our voice sounds different to us than it does to everyone else. And for some reason, there’s something within us that makes us not like the sound of our voice played back. I guess because it’s not natural to hear our voice from somewhere else coming at us but we know it’s ours and so it’s a weird thing that happens in our brain. Our voice doesn’t sound anything to other people like it does to us. So the only way to really get over it is to just ignore and just know that that’s how it is and it’s fine and that other people really do like the sound of your voice; you just don’t and you probably never will. But it’s literally scientifically backed and every single person in the world cringes at the sound of their own voice.

Evaldas: Yeah, that’s a relief actually. Definitely as I see it like brain and the thinking, it does affect a lot of things with perception, whatever you do, and that goes to voice as well. So what would you say was one biggest challenge, personally, when you got started?

Jon: The biggest challenge, personally, I think, was convincing myself that I should — before I started Hack the Entrepreneur but I just decided to do it. And then convincing myself that it was – the content and the show that I was creating – was going to help the listener and was going to take them somewhere and was going to benefit them in some way, that it wasn’t just a selfish act and just me wanting to have my own show because I think — well, I know for a fact that it has to be about your audience but it takes a certain amount of, I guess, courage and confidence, and even cockiness, to be able to step up and think that what you are creating is really good and beneficial and will be valuable to other people, the people that are listening. It’s hard to do that and I’m very introverted so I really don’t like getting up on stage and speaking in front of people, I don’t like being in crowds and so it was hard for me to overcome that in my head and to be able to in an office and talk into a microphone and talk confidently and know that what I was creating would really actually help the person listening to it.

Evaldas: So you got your, always at the back of your mind, the goal you are seeking.

Jon: Yeah. It’s hard, right? It’s always there; it’s always in the back of your mind. All that stuff, you have to go through and you have to know – you have to confidently know that what you are creating, it’s not about you, right? Creating a show, creating a podcast is not about you, the host. It’s not about you and your business; it’s not about you and your brand. It’s 100% always has to be about the audience. I don’t care if that audience is 3 people listening or if it’s 3,000 people listening. It’s still about them. If they don’t get anything; if they don’t get educated, inspired, or entertained from you – or hopefully two of those things at once. If it’s all about you, they don’t care. They have too many options. This is audio on demand; this is all it is. It’s just radio that they can literally just press stop, download the next thing, or stream it over their mobile device and just start listening to one of the other hundreds of thousands of podcasts that came out today. And so it has to be about them and that’s a hard thing for us to get over. It’s not about us. It will help us if we create valuable stuff, people start to learn who we are, but not because it’s about us, it’s because we 100% focus on the audience. And that’s hard; it’s hard for us to know that and it’s hard for us to continue to focus on that but it’s absolutely essential.

Evaldas: How do you build that kind of relationship with your audience? I mean, the trust that it allows you to grow with more and more, do you have any strategies or something?

Jon: Yeah, really just be human. And so a relationship with an audience is like a relationship with a person you meet. If you meet somebody at a coffee shop today and you want to build a relationship with them, you have to talk to them, you have to help them, you have to entertain them. You have to do something to make them want to talk to you and then when they talk to you — so the way your audience can talk to you is you can ask them to email you, you can ask them to tweet, you can ask them to find you on Facebook – any number of ways. I’ve actually given out my phone number and I tell people, “Don’t call me because I don’t answer but text me any time you want – any questions.” If you do that and the person emails you, or the person texts you, or the person tweets you, you have to respond. It’s your job; that’s the part of the relationship on your side. People don’t seem to do that and people still get shocked when they tweet me or they email me and I respond as quick as I can. They’re like, “Woah, I wasn’t expecting a response,” and, to me, it’s like that’s easy then. That’s easy for me, as a podcaster, to build a relationship with an audience because most podcasters out there won’t do this step and I will and that immediately elevates me above them. And it’s so easy to do and that’s why I want to do the show because I want to have this relationship. So there’s no trick to finding a relationship with people. It’s just literally think of finding a new friend or a new person. It’s literally just a human being listening to you on the other side of your show and you want them to engage with you somehow. They’ve already listened, now what do you want them to do? How can they get a hold of you and why does it benefit them to get a hold of you? Can they ask you a question, can they get something free from you, can you help them do something, can you entertain them, or educate them? They need something; it’s always about them. And when they do finally take that step to reach out to you, don’t drop the ball; don’t ignore them. Respond, do the best you can, help them in some way further. This is how you create fans. These people that will do anything for you, will buy anything you want, but if you just ignore them, it will never happen.

Evaldas: Yeah, that’s great stuff. How did you keep up? Like you already did over 200 episodes. You mentioned that it’s your passion but you still have to do the work. Is it because you enjoy the work or is it because, as I mentioned, the audience sort of gives you a feedback and it’s like a self-sustaining loop that you reinforce and do it over again and again?

Jon: I drink way too much coffee and, without that, I don’t think I could continue. Because that loop that we want and that feedback loop from the audience that we ask for and that I talk about isn’t always there. There’s been a month where nobody would respond or two months. It has to come out every Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday because if my listener, if she goes on Tuesday morning on her way to work to download my show which I said will be there and it’s not there, I’ve lost her, that’s it. Because she’s commuting to work, “I need to listen to something. I want to listen to Jon. Oh, Jon’s not there, what am I going to do? I’m going to go listen to somebody else,” and if that other person is there when he says he will be there again, she’s going to go back to him. And it’s just as simple as that. It’s the start of the relationship and if that start of the relationship, right there, is me lying saying, “I’ll be there on Tuesday,” and I’m not there on Tuesday, there’s no trust and therefore, why would she come back and listen to me. And so when you say you’re going to be there, you have to be there and I know that I have to be there therefore I have to continue doing the work no matter if I get feedback or not. I have to be there every Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. It’s essential; it’s absolutely essential and that’s the thing that drives me forward and pushes me to do it more and more and more. And the more I know that I do that consistently, months and months and months and months and months at a time, the audience builds. It just does; it’s just the way it works. Most people quit. Most people quit when they get tired. Most people quit when something – they don’t get the feedback that they want – but you can’t. You have to continue on; you have to continue to push until you just feel like you’ve done it and this is where you want your show to sort of wrap up. If that’s what you choose — but don’t just quit because you’re tired because that’s where everybody else quits and that’s why people don’t succeed at being a podcaster because there’s no easy way to do it. It’s a ton of work but it’s 100% worth it but it’s a lot of work.

Evaldas: Yeah, so as long as there’s more work and you enjoy it, that’s the main thing probably.

Jon: Yeah, exactly. Nothing worth doing is easy. Like what’s the point. I mean, we only have so much time on this planet. We might as well work and do cool stuff and make cool things. You can release a podcast, you can record it in your house, you can release it and the whole world can literally download it. It’s crazy; that blows my mind. Why wouldn’t — world can take advantage of that. It’s essential.

Evaldas: Yeah, that’s really great about podcasting as a medium. I mean, everyone can do it and the opportunity is just amazing. The audience is just growing just in the U.S. I sort of read that there’s 75, or maybe more right now, millions people who are listening regularly.

Jon: Exactly.

Evaldas: Yeah, and if you grow an audience worldwide, it’s even — the numbers are even more staggering.

Jon: Yeah, it’s awesome. I love it.

Evaldas: As a host, but I was also interested, do you actually listen to any shows, yourself? Do you have any one that you are interested in would you recommend to our people to listen to?

Jon: Yeah, a show that I’m really, really into lately is called — it is called Question of the Day. I really, really like Question.

Evaldas: And how do you relate to it?

Jon: Pardon?

Evaldas: How do you relate to it? Why it’s so interesting to you?

Jon: I really like the format. So there’s two hosts: one of them is Steven from – Steven Levitt – I believe, from Freakonomics and the other one is James Altucher. They both have their own podcast but they come together and they just literally ask each other one question for the show and they talk about it. But I love the short, concise, really detailed format of the show. I like that about podcast. I like when they’re like radio style where I know what I’m going to get at each section and it’s the same throughout.

Evaldas: Do you have any sort of funny stories that you can share so far for your whole podcasting career?

Jon: My whole career is a joke at this point.

Evaldas: Well, I wouldn’t say it by looking at your results. I wouldn’t call it a joke.

Jon: A funny story – wow, that’s a good question – what is a funny story from?

Evaldas: And now a shout-out to our sponsors at castsource.net. Are you finding yourself at 1 a.m. in the morning typing your shows’ transcripts? Got tired of doing them yourself or maybe you don’t use them at all? Well, that’s extra content, maybe, and these days, any put out content has an equal chance of survival. And unfortunately, Google doesn’t index audio directly. Here at CastSource, we do transcriptions specifically designed for podcasters so that new content would work for you even when you’re having your sweet dreams.

Well, like something that you would like me to view or any friend podcaster or, in general, and you talk about it like… Something like that.

Jon: Yeah, it’s a good question. I’ve never been asked that question before. And there’s got to be things that happen all the time. Any one funny thing? I can do this. I can do this. Geez, man, you’ve stumped me.

Evaldas: Don’t worry.

Jon: I typically don’t run out of things to say but a funny story from podcasting? I think the funniest story is… It’s actually the very first show I ever created and I can’t really tell you about it but for historical sense, and because they teach lots of people to podcast people now and lots of people email me and like, “Oh, I love your show,” and, “How did you get so good where you always look really good at interviewing people,” blah-blah-blah. And so my very first podcast I ever created – it’s still on iTunes so you can find it if you searched Jon Nastor – and the whole thing is kind of a joke. It’s terrible; I’m so bad and I was so scared. And you could hear the nerves in me talking and I was just… So that would actually be the funniest story. And because of the fact that I left it up there — and so sometimes I get an audience member, they’ll go back and listen to it then they’ll email me and be like, “Oh, you really came a long ways.” But I think that that’s essential. I think that that’s so important that you have to — there’s no way you can just release your first podcast and that’s the one that’s going to break through and be good. Meaning that some of us have 10 episodes, some of us have 20, some of us have 50 episodes that are going to be just really bad until you get comfortable behind the microphone, until you get comfortable with your voice, until you get comfortable just sort of flowing off the top and being able to make a good show. There’s a certain amount of that in you that’s going to be terrible. It’s just the way it is. There’s no way around it. The only way to get through it is to just push through it and keep going. On the other side, you will be a good podcaster. But, unfortunately, most people, again, quit before they hit that other side. They quit because they think that it will never happen and it will always happen if you keep doing it. And so I guess that’s why I leave that up is for that lesson. Because I’m being serious. I literally have a career where I get paid to podcast all the time now – blows my mind. I’m the last person that should ever be podcasting. And if you go search “Jon Nastor” on iTunes, you’ll find my original podcast and it’s horrible. If you listen to that and then thought, “Hmm, this guy in a year and a half is going to become a professional podcaster and get paid to podcast and there will be probably about 100 to 150 thousand people every single month that will download his podcast,” it would be insane. You would never say that because I was terrible but somehow those first 15 episodes of that got me through my really bad radio and it makes sense when I look back on it now. I hope to leave it there to inspire others who are probably not nearly as bad as I was that you can become a podcaster if you want to and you can reach literally people across – I think I’ve hit like 180 something countries at this point of downloads. It blows my mind. You can do it with very little upfront cost, just a lot of work, and you working through your bad radio. That’s the best I got, man.

Evaldas: Yeah, yeah. That’s quite the achievement. I mean, you didn’t give up and you still pushed it all the time until you got where you are. I mean, that takes discipline and, really, courage, I would say, especially if you were bad at first.

Jon: I was terrible.

Evaldas: Yeah, but I guess that’s for any kind of school. In this, you are like a guru or like a genius that you are good at anything but I think most of people suck at first and it’s — me included. I’m just also actually following the same thing, just taking action first and then experimenting, seeing how it works.

Jon: It’s actually the best way to do it, man. I don’t think anybody’s ever been born good at podcasting. I don’t think it’s something you can be born at. It’s just some people just do it and they do it enough that — it’s funny because when anybody starts saying that that person is really good at podcasting, people start – I can tell me that now – it’s like I have 200 episodes of this one show I do. The Showrunner show, we just hit 50 episodes plus I had 15 of that other one before that. That’s almost 300 episodes plus I’ve been on like 100 other shows. So it’s, “Okay, so I guess I’m good,” but I mean, it’s a really strong evolution. You go back to the beginning, it’s terrible. Now, 400 episodes later, yeah, I’m pretty good. And at 1,000, I’m going to be a lot better. At 2,000, I’ll be even better. You know what I mean? It’s a — but we look at people who are now at 200 episodes, at 300 episodes and we think, “I’ll never be like that.” Well, you will if you put 300 episodes under your belt. It’s inevitable; just don’t stop before you get there. That’s all I can say because it’s worth it and it’s fun and it feels good to get good at something and you get good at it by practice.

Evaldas: Yeah. Okay, so let’s roll a little bit of sushi, as I would say, and I’m interested, do you think it’s possible – I mean, you’re already doing it but just to let our audience get a feeling about it – how would you earn a buck from your show and what kind of best practices you would suggest anyone who was thinking about doing a business out of a podcast?

Jon: Yeah, that’s an excellent question. So there’s two sort of ways to think about this. So you can either monetize your podcast directly or indirectly. So directly is sponsorships. If you get sponsorships for your show then people will pay you to have a pre-roll, or a mid-roll, or both on your show, meaning they’ll pay you 100, or 200, or 500 dollars to have a Adspot read by you on their show. Then there’s the indirect way which – like the Showrunner podcast that we have – literally has no Adspots. We don’t allow Adspots but we indirectly monetize it really, really well by — the show is 100% created to bring an audience and draw an audience about podcasting and then we sell a course to people. So that’s an indirect so it’s the podcast itself doesn’t make you money but it indirectly does because it makes you a lot of money by finding you an audience, teaching them about a subject, and then selling them more information on that through a course. So HubSpot does that, Copyblogger, itself, has a show like that. There’s a ton of podcasts out there now that are created by businesses to bring it in. And this model goes back to — I mean, if you remember like soap operas – soap operas are the kind of shows that were created, I think, in like the late 1940s, early 1950s and they’re like daytime TV show – I don’t know if you know, in America or in Canada where I am —

Evaldas: Yeah, I know them.

Jon: Totally. So they’re the shows in the afternoon but those now, we just know them as shows and they’re still called soap operas and it doesn’t make sense. But they were literally originally created by a soap company in the late, I think, ’40s or early 1950s.

Evaldas: Wow.

Jon: Just by a soap company and all they thought was, “So we have this product, soap. We know that our audience is women who are at home so why don’t we just create a TV show that they’ll all love and we’ll just promote, all the time, our soap product to them,” and it became an amazing way to promote a product. So that’s indirect and that’s the way podcasts work the best and that’s the way that you should try and focus it. So if you have a product or you’re thinking of creating a product or a service, you should create a podcast and then promote your product and talk about your product through it but also provide real value. So with soap operas, they provided really good entertainment for those ladies but, indirectly, they were promoting their products all the time and it works really, really well. So those are the two ways to really, really, really do it. There’s some other ways to indirectly do it and then there’s some other ways to directly do it, like you could get people to donate money – those kind of things. But, really, it’s the sponsorships on the one side and then really selling a product through your podcast on the other side. And those, I’ve used both of them. I still use both of them to this day and they both have their pluses and sort of minuses. And it’s easier than you think to get sponsorships right now for shows. People are desperate to get on the shows and to sponsor to them and that’s a great way to kind of get started. But if you already have a product then, by all means, think of a show that would attract your perfect audience or your perfect customer and create a show for that person and then indirectly sell them your product. It works really, really, really well.

Evaldas: Nice. That’s really useful. Actually, I’m interested in a couple of tech type of stuff about podcast. I want to know, do you use any kind of analytics for your shows?

Jon: I use Libsyn. So Libsyn gives me the analytics of downloads and then, other than that, it’s Google Analytics for my site so I can track where people are coming from and geographically, where they are from.

Evaldas: Do you think downloads is enough or you would like to have anything, like if you could choose any kind of analytics like sci-fi type of — what would be that kind of thing you would think would be useful for any podcaster?

Jon: If there was analytics that could tell you if people listened and how much they listened to each episode. I think, first of all, it would destroy the sponsorship model and the sponsorship industry because download numbers are always going to be higher than listen numbers and we only have to talk in download numbers right now and so we can get more money for it. So, to me, I don’t know if we’d want more and it might be disheartening to see that your show got downloaded 100 times but only got listened to 10 times all the way through. So I don’t know. I really don’t focus on the tech side. To me, I just set it up so that it works the basic. I’m really focused on getting people onto an email list from my show. It’s really important to me that it gets distributed through as many directories as possible. If there was a way that I could somehow get my RSS feed out to more and more directories without me spending the time to find those directories and put it there, I would love that, like easier distribution. But so much for analytics, I don’t really — it doesn’t really matter to me too much. At some point, the industry is going to change and we are going to figure out how to track that stuff but, to me, it’s not something that I really concern myself with. I’ll have to do it once the industry changes but I would love easier distribution. I would love easier publishing of a show. Right now, there’s a lot of steps involved to publishing an episode and I do it four times a week between my two shows so it’s a lot of work, it’s a lot of steps, a lot of processes, and there doesn’t seem to be a really sort of easy way to do that. So if that could be simplified and made easier then I’d be really, really happy with that.

Evaldas: Nice. Do you use or would you like to use transcripts for your shows? What do you think about them?

Jon: I love transcripts. I had transcripts for the first 70 shows, I’m going to say, then I joined Rainmaker and Rainmaker did them for about the next 35 or 40 shows and then they stopped. And so now, I’m at — I’ve got like 60 or so episodes that don’t have transcripts and I’m trying to figure out a good, efficient, not super expensive way to do it. All the ways I’ve found so far, it’s like $50 or $60 per episode and if I’m doing four episodes a week, it’s just cost-prohibitive. I can’t pay $1,200 a month just for transcripts. I don’t think it’s really worth it. So if there was a way, again, that it was a simple process to submit it and get it done, I would be all over it because it’s amazing for Google SEO and it’s amazing for how you can take that contact and repurpose it into many other things to widen your net. With the content and the interviews you’ve done and the content you’ve already created, you can spread it out through Amazon, through YouTube, through SlideShare, and you can find more and more people with stuff you’ve already created. But it’s so cost-prohibitive and so many steps. There seems to be like just like the actual writers and there’s editors and there’s formatting to get it onto your site – it’s labor-intensive. So if you start doing three or four a week, it’s really, really hard. But that’s something that I would absolutely, absolutely love to see.

Evaldas: Nice, nice. And you actually did something with your Hack the Entrepreneur. You released a book.

Jon: I did.

Evaldas: Yeah. And it’s basically based on the knowledge you got from your podcast.

Jon: Yeah, definitely. I got asked so many times by audience members emailing me, telling me or asking me where the book is. So because I had so many episodes, people wanted a way to digest the episodes so I wrote a book and it’s based on 50 episodes and then a bunch of lessons and it goes through kind of the steps of like getting started in a business to going through the mindset, then business ideas, then being wrong, and then ending with growth. So it’s kind of the whole step of creating any sort of project or business online and taking it all the way out through to grow. And I use transcripts for that like as starting points for lots of stuff so they came in really useful and then, obviously, lots of editing and lots of writing on top of that. But, yeah, it was just — it shows me the value of building that audience and really, really engaging with them. When it’s midnight tonight and somebody emails me because they’re stuck on a problem with their business or they want to start a business and they don’t know what to do and I take the time to answer them, it doesn’t always seem like it’s paying me back. But I did this book and I had those people on an email list and when I launched the book, the next day it hit #1 on Amazon. That, to me, is payment for all of that work and that’s amazing to me. And I still — I mean, my goal is to sell 10,000 copies of it this year, that book, and I just about — today, I might hit 2,000 copies and I’m about 5 weeks into it. So it’s awesome; it’s amazing. And that’s why you build that audience, that’s why you start a show, that’s why you really need to just work on that relationship, and really give and give and give so that when it’s time for you to get something because you asked then people will step up and help you. People will buy stuff; people will take you to a bestseller if you want and that’s really, really powerful. So it makes all the hard work really worth it but book is just another way to extend your reach of your podcast. People are now finding it through Amazon that don’t even know about the show and then, now, coming to my show because of it. So it really — they both help each other really well.

Evaldas: I did actually bought your book and I almost finish reading now.

Jon: Oh, really? Nice.

Evaldas: Yeah, I like it. I mean, it has a lot of angles from different kind of people. Some people I actually even follow right now, like Dan Norris. I’m part of his community even now. So in his startup and, yeah, I like your idea how you approached it from podcast, to a book, and then building your audience and just spreading out. It’s really smart.

Jon: Thanks.

Evaldas: We have covered a lot of stuff here and I just want to ask you one last thing for our audience. What one thing you would recommend for anyone who is starting out or just doing a podcast, one thing we should do to make the podcast great?

Jon: One thing you should do to make your podcast great is know who you are trying to find. So I call it the audience of one, meaning that you need to really be always talking to one person because — don’t say like “you guys”, don’t say “we”. It’s always to one person because there’s one person on the other side with headphones and they’re listening to you or they’re working and they hear you through your computer and they want to feel connected to you. And so you need to be creating everything in every show so that it is for that one person specifically. And, again, you have to always, always do that focus of you need to be educating them, entertaining them, or inspiring them in some way or another. And if you can do two of those at once, then it’s even better. But if you don’t either entertain, educate, or inspire, they’re going to stop listening and they’re going to go somewhere else and you’re not going to be able to build that audience. So focus on that one person, do one of those three things or two if you can and just really, really make it so that it’s always very, very, very valuable to that one person and they will continue to come back – they absolutely will. And it’s the easiest way to build an audience for your show. Don’t think about getting a thousand subscribers at the beginning, or ten thousand, or a hundred thousand. Just think about, literally, just getting one person. If you get that one person to come back and subscribe then get two, then get five, then get ten. But you can’t just go from no audience to a thousand people. It just doesn’t work. You have to pay attention to every single person and just go plus one each time. And if you can do that day in and day out, it will build an audience. But it takes time, it takes effort, and it takes you focusing on that person.

Evaldas: Yeah, just don’t give up.

Jon: Exactly, and just know that it’s not about you. Your show is not about you at all. It’s always about your audience. It’s just how it is.

Evaldas: So like if some person wants to reach out to you, how would we do it? What are our best way to connect to you?

Jon: If you’re on Twitter. I’m on Twitter @jonnastor, so J-O-N-N-A-S-T-O-R. I’m on there way too much so that’s a great spot. Or you can track me down on hacktheentrepreneur.com and if you get on the email list there, you can hit reply to any of those emails and it comes straight to my inbox. And, yeah, I’d love to talk to you, I’d love to help you with anything I can, or just say hi. It’d be great to talk.

Evaldas: Okay thanks, Jon. And that will be it for our show and I wish you best of luck on your podcast and business and just to succeed as much as you possibly can. Yeah, thanks for spending your time and sharing your life lessons on business and podcasting which I really value.

Jon: Thank you. Absolutely my pleasure. It’s been great.

Evaldas: I value your time a lot and to thank you back, I’ve prepared a little gift for you. Visit castsource.net/free and you’ll find it there. Hey, let me know if you enjoyed the episode and what kind of guest would you like again. Write me an email, listen@castsource.net, comment on podcast blog posts, or leave a review at iTunes. Next show will feature an interview of two girls who took the idea for changing their lives seriously, at the same time, impacted other peoples’ lives. We will be waiting for you there.

About Evaldas Miliauskas

Evaldas Miliauskas is the founder of CastSource - a startup that provides transcriptions designed for podcasts. He is a passionate podcaster listener, host, and a entrepreneur.

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